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Poster: laptaper Date: Dec 3, 2005 10:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

OK, Bob, the boards are yours, the boards are yours, I've never said otherwise.

But - 90% of the reasons you gave were pure BS. What Archive was doing was illegal? Your organization had already given permission to website operators to host shows, without discriminating between boards and auds. Technically, Archive didn't need to ask for permission it had already received, they just needed to post your policy and abide by its noncommercial stipulations - that's what it says. In short, this was a really cheap shot. Also, the Dead organization knew about this for a quite a while and made no complaint, took no action (see McNally's press statement). Silence equals consent, Bob.

As far as Archive needing to get permission from every single artist you've covered to put your versions of their songs, that's absurd. If that was so you would have made a stipulation in your policy that only Dead original tunes could be spread via the internet, and any posting of "Viola Lee Blues", "Queen Jane Approximately", etc. would have to be worked out with the artists or their estates. Your own policy puts the emphasis on your performances as the property in question, not the songs themselves.

Finally, you admit the real reason - "we need the revenue". Fair enough; I haven't planned well for my retirement, so I can't fault you for doing the same. But, fer crissake, admit it, will ya? Or at least put down the tar brush that you seem intent on hitting Archive with again and again. Although some of the people on this message board are whiners, the folks who work hard running this site aren't and deserve better treatment than you've been giving them. Quit blackening others' reputations to save your own.

This post was modified by laptaper on 2005-12-03 17:55:50

This post was modified by laptaper on 2005-12-03 18:31:39

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Poster: markpj Date: Dec 3, 2005 10:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

one last thing for weir ..get a clue. Maybe if the fans were into your music and downloads you would not punish us like this by taking away the music..so if it is not working for you and if it was you would not have to yank are chain with the sbd's ..I was O.K. with aud tapes only but now you just fueled the flame. I should have known way sooner and did suspect it was bob cause there are no ratdog downloads on this site anyway..I am selling my ratdog ticket and going to be looking for a miracle phil ticket

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 3, 2005 10:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir, Ratdog downloads

there are no ratdog downloads on this site anyway

Please see currently 173 items and counting at
http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php?collection=etree&cat=Ratdog
Enjoy the music, thanks to the band's generosity!

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Poster: Peter Kuhn Date: Dec 6, 2005 12:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

I sure hope Bobby is paying Ice Nine for all the Garcia/Hunter song performed by Ratdog and traded by their fans. ;)

The Dead's mistake was to let SBDs out of the vault as well as allowing board patches. Their employees acting as agents for the band allowed this to happen with Dead's dysfunctional organization and board (band members) probably oblivious to the fact. New SBDs kept appearing after Jerry died. Putting the genie back into the bottle will be next to impossible.

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Poster: jeffyjo Date: Dec 3, 2005 9:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

I just listened to that mp3, and I have to say... I think Bobby's acting like he doesn't care about the fans... unless, that is, they buy something. Which is sad, because that's the exact opposite of what the "Grateful Dead spirit" is supposed to be.

And... if this is so illegal, why did the band allow it for 40 years, only "cracking down" when times got tough and the money got short? 40 years is a heck of a precedent to try to destroy. I also don't like how he makes the archive.org team out to be some band of crazy bootleggers and criminals.

It's just sad.

I don't feel the need to sign anything, but I can see why people are boycotting him, and this makes me think twice about giving him my money as well. Because that seems to be our only use to him.

Jeff

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Poster: markpj Date: Dec 3, 2005 10:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

SEE YA ???? Why I am so Hurt..I used to go see go-ahead and bob and rob and now I know why everybody gets upset when it's a bobby song

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Poster: RickyD Date: Dec 3, 2005 2:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

How can there be a boycot against Bobby when everyone boycoting him are mad because he doesn't want to GIVE FOR FREE anything that might get him SUED. Great idea...lets boycot somebody who gives use stuff for free for fourty years by not buying anything at all. Hmmmmmm...why not boycot somebosy who NEVER gives anything for free whether they've done that for fourty years or not. Stop whining that the world isn't free. Sometimes things cost money, sometimes things cost personal time, sometimes things cost work and effort. I think the better idea would be to support the guy now. After all fourty years is a long time to have been fighting greedy businessmen. Isn't part of the "Grateful Dead spirit" built on coming together and sharing both the richs of life as well as the fights. But no lets all start turning our backs on him and turn to fighting eachother so that the whole "Grateful Dead spirit" dies altogether. It is what corporate america would like!

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Poster: woodro69 Date: Dec 3, 2005 9:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

bob was always []

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-04 05:38:55

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Poster: geronimo1 Date: Dec 3, 2005 9:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Please Honor Bob's Request

For all of you who have listened to the Bob interview concerning LMA, Please remember that he asked all of you to continue the boycott of GDM forever. Help him out and do so. Encourage your friends as well. They (Bob, Mickey, Billy) don't need you, me, our money or our support. 'Cause you know man, they are having revenue problems around the Dead mobile, and they are gonna digitize this stuff, you know, that some people would even call ...art. And we were thieves waiting to get them sued by all the people they covered songs from. Finally, he has requested that the song "Loser" officially be renamed "Bobby", effective immediately, to be digitized on all media. Now come on all you loyal fans, help the hapless idiot loser out.

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Poster: smagnolia Date: Dec 3, 2005 10:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Please Honor Bob's Request

I'm more than happy to honor Bob's request and to him I say "See ya!" but I can't recall seeing any sort of statement from Bill yet. You have grouped him with Phil and Mickey. Do you have a link for a statement? I would love to read it because I am anxiously waiting to hear word from him.
Peace...................
(another GREAT quote from this Bob interview was "We need the revenue". I will not spend another dime to see Ratdog.)

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Poster: pnc Date: Dec 3, 2005 10:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

i know i'll get flamed, but...

besides sounding stoned, bob sounds defensive. i wonder why? you'd only have to be tuned in to all the whiners posting on the archive to stop wondering...

maybe bob made a (poor) decision (it sounds like on his own)and maybe he did not handle the explanation effectively in this interview, but if i was in his position, and had witnessed the ridiculous sense of entitlement displayed by some heads...i might be turned to the darkside too. i'm guessing that "see'ya" was to all of you...people, they were never doing it for all of us anyway. music is, and always has been, a business. even for the best band to ever go on stage...

what may have eventually come around to the sbds being put right back on this site as they were a few weeks ago, for the DL...sounds like it'll never happen now. and I'm blaming those folks who couldn't just chill and see how it all played out...(i.e., waited to see if somebody like phil could talk some sense into the other band memebers).

this whole thing has just sucked...and as Diana has pointed out again and again, this has not set a positive precedent for other bands considering opening their music up to the archive.



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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Dec 4, 2005 5:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Space Cadet of Circumstance......Babbling in a Trance

Wow.....Heaven help the fool. I would say I am disappointed but I never expected much out of Weir in the first place. I would say I am surprised.... but I am not.

Weir was invited at the the tender age of 17 into what became perhaps the most profound musical group since the advent of rock. Look at the lives of every band member and see who they were before they all became this band. It is safe to say that Weir had the most limited life perspective, albeit by circumstance (though he sure ain't no saint of it). And then, before ever growing up, he was swept up into the highly-misguided notion that he is worthy of worship (clearly still validated by many on this board).

A previous writer referred to Weir living in a 'bubble'. Sounds about right.....40 years in a bubble as the biggest hanger-on in the band (didn't he and Pig get 'fired' briefly in '68, but just never left???). Without Barlow or Garcia, Weir would have been just another struggling 3rd-rate wannabe guitarist with little to say and even less to play. .....like he is now.

I mean let's be real....Weir peaked around '74 as a guitarist. He's never peaked with anything else (except maybe some righteous Owsley product). As highlighted over and over again his performances are so hit and miss (and more miss than hit) that fewer and fewer people are willing to gamble $50 on the hope he might actually be in a good enough mood or suddenly start caring again enough to do more than 'phone in' another lackluster 'performance'. Now he's slumped into a horribly dismissive, self-important, disingenuous 'dead relic' with this rambling, disjointed, dishonest diatribe. Garcia would probably not be surprised...he lived with Weir's attention-starved dissonance for several decades.

Some things never change.

I mean, Sheezus....."archive.COM????" Ever hear of that little difference between .org and .com, Bob??? Let me explain....the .org's are the kind human beings who work for NO PROFIT doing real public service, unlike others on the 'internets' (or in music) whose sole mission is to line their grubby pockets. Bob, it is no shock you are oblivious to the existence of those who give their lives to more than making cash and talking trash.

"What they're doing is illegal"???? This guy needs to learn how to play music again before he starts making such laughably absurd charges against hard-working servants of the public interest.

"See ya"? Don't count on it, B.

And P.S. To those whining about 'whiners'.....do any of you actually think that a single damn thing would have changed from Nov. 22nd had we all just fell to our knees in sycophantic worship? How did you all make things better, I am curious??

I don't know about the 'whiners' but I know that the hue and cry of many caring people brought the music back, not the knee-jerk defenders of anything/everything the Dead ever do.

Crass, hypocritical, greedy, ill-founded, unexplained behavior should get a free pass from no one. S**t behavior isn't excusable just because you were part of making some good music decades ago.

I guess I would rather be called a 'whiner' than a worshipper.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-12-04 13:21:14

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Poster: davidbarfield Date: Dec 3, 2005 11:53pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

"i know i'll get flamed, but..."

just a little.

"besides sounding stoned, bob sounds defensive. i wonder why? you'd only have to be tuned in to all the whiners posting on the archive to stop wondering..."

it's beyond defenive, it is hostile. he mocked the people who were pissed at the decision (listen to his fake hippie voice) by basically claiming them to be ignorant, entitled dopes. perhaps there are some dopes, and when dopes get angry they may write unseemly things on message boards. but at the same time a lot of other people express themselves in positive ways--it all comes out in the wash

this business about entitlement kinda freaks me out. when someone takes your property (in this case, audience tapes) and defines how you are to use it, well simply; it's maddening. let's not revise history, they took everything down and it was only because of the heads freaking that got them back up. in a way, i would have loved to see the case in court (they'd have lost)...but back to weir. don't know about y'all, but i don't know any hippies. everyone i've ever met taping, at shows, online are people with jobs, advanced degrees, kids, lives, and brains. what makes weir's claims so outrageous is that he's off track so far ("illegal" ??? wtf?) and his attitude so offensive, that blaming it on a coupla effed up posts on archive does not answer get to the heart of what's up.

"maybe bob made a (poor) decision (it sounds like on his own)and maybe he did not handle the explanation effectively in this interview, but if i was in his position, and had witnessed the ridiculous sense of entitlement displayed by some heads...i might be turned to the darkside too. i'm guessing that "see'ya" was to all of you...people, they were never doing it for all of us anyway. music is, and always has been, a business. even for the best band to ever go on stage..."

the problem with this, again, is that it's not "entitlement" the way you use the term. your defintion seems to imply that there's no basis whatever for people to be angry, and then using that (sometimes over-the-top) anger as rationalization for their crappy behavior. bob weir had a line once about how deadheads should behave at shows. he discounted telling other what to do, instead advocating that people set a "conspicuous example" of good behavior. i agreed with that..


"what may have eventually come around to the sbds being put right back on this site as they were a few weeks ago, for the DL...sounds like it'll never happen now. and I'm blaming those folks who couldn't just chill and see how it all played out...(i.e., waited to see if somebody like phil could talk some sense into the other band memebers)."

here i think you're just wrong.

"this whole thing has just sucked...and as Diana has pointed out again and again, this has not set a positive precedent for other bands considering opening their music up to the archive."

perhaps, but given the particulars of this situation there's no other band that even comes close to the issues raised here, nor will there ever be again.

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Poster: Eytan Date: Dec 4, 2005 7:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

Nice post PNC - but I don't imagine other bands would do this without posting their own explanation when it happened and then blame archive.org (and not even get the name right and call it archive.com, implying it is a COMmercial enterprise).
Bottom line, stand up and take responsibility for YOUR actions, don't blame archive.org. He really does remind me of this current administration and the inability to take responsibility for your own actions and where that gets you.

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Poster: jhender501 Date: Dec 3, 2005 11:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview



Well put, pnc


Jim

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Poster: angular Date: Dec 3, 2005 11:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

I feel ya. I wish this whole thing would not have happenned. The whiners though (especially unbrokenchain) have made the situation alot worse. I keep hoping its all just a dream i dreamed one afternoon long ago.

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Poster: my13 Date: Dec 3, 2005 4:53pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

I have to agree with you i wish the whole thing never happened and your right the winers made it worse but sometimes you have to speak up to find out the truth and i guess thats what happened- it all very sad we all nedd to look at ourselves especially Bobby

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Poster: Urthmover Date: Dec 3, 2005 11:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Bob Weir Interview

I am embarrassed at Bob's behavior and lack of tact. Unless you have thought about an answer don't start babbling..... and I think I just heard a plug for r@td0g!! from bad to worse